"Yuzuvier research" с ПХ

На ПХ это закрытая секция, поэтому все в тэгах NI. Если будете цитировать, но забывайте их ставить, пожалуйста. (Для тех, кто там есть, - это страницы 48-49)

Юзер 1: I'm not sure how relevant this really is to this thread, but I just finished reading Javi's book yesterday and wanted to share a few impressions that may or may not fuel some plot bunnies at least :P Many of them possibly angsty though :headdesk: Putting under a spoiler, so people can skip if they like.
First, I'd say I do recommend Javi's book. It was really cheap for me in the Google Play Store, the only downside is that it's only in Spanish (no idea if there are plans of making an English version at some point). I got it out of curiosity and, admittedly, expecting to read a bit about his friendship with Yuzu as well. As a warning: there's virtually nothing about that. (Which I guess somehow fits with that documentary and all they've been saying about how they're more rivals now than friends). He only mentions Yuzuru a total of 4 or 5 times and generally only in terms of him having to beat Yuzu if he wants to win (and knowing it'd be very hard to; he hasn't suddenly lost the "if Yuzu skates well, there's nothing I can do about it" message.) However, the book is interesting and it gives an insight into Javi as a person. His book is actually quite different from Yuzu's. Whereas Yuzu's is basically a collection of interviews and focus 90% on skating, Javi's is obviously written as a book, going down memory lane and recounting his story, and focusing very much on the personal and emotional aspect. He talks about his parents' sacrifices, his and his sister's hardships, how he felt leaving home and traveling around the world following Morozov. The only parts where he focuses more on skating are the parts about his two world championships. Oh and his first European title.

Of course, this also made me wonder if it hints at the differences between he and Yuzu as well. Yuzu's life is almost entirely about skating. Even the relaxing times when he steps back and detaches himself, are still only done in order to be able to go back to skating rested. While Javi has always seemed to want to balance an elite skater's life with the life a normal guy his age would have. (I'm not sure Yuzu even knows what a normal life is.)

Also, one of the most interesting things for me, was Javi saying that his own pre-competition ritual involves detaching himself completely from Javi the person and leaving only Javi the skater. Or in his words: He (Javi the person) never comes with me (to competitions). And how he needs/wants to be completely in control of everything within his reach. I actually found that a little surprising, because he doesn't seem THAT focused, to me? But it made me wonder if Yuzu even knows Javi the person much. Maybe the one Yuzu is really good friends with is only Javi the skater. That could explain their never hanging out together away from the rink, too. Especially combined with how much Yuzu dedicates himself to skating, while Javi probably wants to take a step back when competitions and practice are over. And I don't know how much hanging out with your rink mate and biggest rival - who lives and breathes skating - is conductive to stepping back. Then again, he's also friends with Javier Raya, so who knows? >.< (His dating Miki is different, because she doesn't compete. Although, in light of his book, I also find their relationship very weird... but that's really OT here, I guess :P )

Anyway, the above is just my impressions and thoughts and a bit depressing in the Yuzuvier way of things :P But it could make for some great angsty fics :P (Have I mentioned I love angst? :P)

Юзер 2: Thanks Юзер 1 for sharing insights about the book. I confess I had no idea that Javi had written (or at least had someone written) a (auto)biography.

I find the part about separating his private persona with his competitive persona very interesting. I mean, everyone has their own private image and their social mask, and how much of the 'real and raw' Javi is shown during competitions is something I wonder about. I believe it is kind of similar with Yuzuru, but our skater has basically cameras following him around (except when in ninja mode) so Yuzuru's social mask must be a lot thicker than Javi's (not a bad thing at all though... I hope I made myself clear here :rofl:).

Юзер 3: Maybe that explains why Javi likes Japan so much, he fits right in with this public/private - as shorthand - split!

Юзер 1 (в ответ Юзеру 2): It's my pleasure :) I think I stumbled upon a mention of the book on his twitter at one point, when I was stalking it lol It is an autobiography, as it's all in first person, though whether he sat and typed it himself or just dictated it to someone... who knows lol (I remember after that being very curious about the Yuzu and Brian books, it's they're also first person. I find that more interesting - though of course, in Brian's case, there's the issue of translation...)

In a way, the separating of personas isn't very surprising. I think, to some extent, all public people - and indeed, all people - have that. But I never saw that much of a gap between Javi during competitions and Javi in more relaxed settings, so it made me wonder if maybe even Javi in more relaxed settings, as long as it's still skating related, is still skater Javi. In which case, it makes you wonder about person-Javi. I agree it's probably the same for Yuzu as well. And I think it's quite possible we don't even have the slightest idea about the person-Yuzu, because like you said, he's almost always in the public eye. So the private person-Yuzu might have never made himself known to us. Maybe that's why he can disappear like that, too lol. Since nobody recognizes person-Yuzu :P.

Юзер 4: I also think Javi is more open in terms of both his public and skating persona (on ice vs off ice). I think Keiji talked about this subject in his interview with Shizuka - that most skaters have a different personality off ice and on ice.

In contrast, everyone who knows Yuzu since he was a child has said that he never really changed or that his off ice and on ice persona is that same. We know he is extra with everything (skating, gaming, earphones, kendama). :rofl:

But the one thing he has actually always kept private is everything off ice. We don't hear about his family or his home life except for the few snippets he does give away here and there.

Юзер 1 (в ответ Юзеру 4): Exactly. Javi talks a lot about his family in his book and his family appears in his documentaries and so on. He talks a lot about financial struggles and the sacrifices his parents had to make and so on. Yuzuru only mentions them vaguely. He credits them for all the support they've given him, of course, but never goes into details. The only time he does give away some private life details - in the books, as far as I've read so far - is when he talks about the earthquake. Beyond that it's very little, indeed. And it makes sense, that he'd want to keep that private, considering he's been a small 'celebrity' all his career - how many other novice and junior skaters get to be on TV that early on? - and that only got worse through the years? By comparison, Javi only started getting some media attention in 2013 and although it's been growing, it's still not really truly celebrity level, I think.

Юзер 4 (в ответ Юзеру 1): He should probably ask for advice from Yuzu on handling media because he's been very bad at it. haha.. :ohno:
He did give as "skating wife" though so I'm not complaining.

Юзер 1 (в ответ Юзеру 4): He seems to always have been... :headdesk: It's probably because he's very straightforward, in a way... But yes, some lessons in PR from Yuzu would go a long way lol (though messing up Javi can be cute at times, too... The skating wife comment is still epic. lol)

Юзер 4: I also find it weird how everyone seems to want to emphasize that yuzu and javi "are not that close" recently...
But when you look at how Javi always seems to touch Yuzu's waist and neck I'm like... /????/ because I don't see him interacting like that with any other male skater he is close to..
We accept that they're not close off-ice (I blame yuzu's hikikomori tendencies lol). But I think the reason why yuzuvier exists is that they have a sort of intimacy on ice. The way they interact with each other is very different from how they interact with other skaters.
*дальше гифки с ФГП-16*

Юзер 1: To be fair, Javi has 'molested' other skaters as well - there was a picture I stumbled upon once that I then pretended never to have seen, because, as a Yuzuvier shipper, I felt Yuzu was being cheated on :P - but I genuinely believe he and Yuzu have a very special bond. One that is born out of training together, being together on a day to day basis and being at the top together. Nobody else knows how hard the other works like they do. The hardships they face, the falls they endure, the bruises they sport, the small successes, the every day improvements. They support each other a lot, too, but, as skaters - and skating is still, for both of them, the most important thing in their lives - they probably know and understand each other best. So, in a way, to me, this bond is something beyond friendship, even beyond romance. Of course, that it could turn into romance, once they both relax a bit, I believe is also true - and it's where my fanfics generally end up at. But right now, it's just that special bond.

And even if their relationship has shifted a bit after Boston - and I think it did, not just because they both say it, but because they also both seem to have taken somewhat different paths this year, and while the closeness still appeared, the fun moments weren't really there - I believe the bond is still there. And it's the bond we see when they share those intimate moments, or when Yuzu put his medal on Javi.

For the shift, I had actually started writing a big ramble at one point, but I still need to do some research, to base it on actual comments, than what I think they said lol I do tend to believe there was a shift and that Yuzu might have been the main 'to blame' for it, as Javi hinted, and maybe Javi did feel a teeny tiny bit of resentment for that - I do find the absence of Yuzuru in his book disappointing, not just because I'm a Yuzuvier shipper, but because I do honestly believe they both reached the top as they did because they worked together. I'm not sure Javier would have ever been World Champion if Yuzu hadn't gone to train with Brian. I'm also not sure Yuzuru would be where he is if he hadn't gone to train with Brian. Yuzu generally does give Javi credit for this. Javi does, too, in interviews, generally. And praises Yuzu. But in his book, where he talks about all sorts of things that played a part in his success, he doesn't mention Yuzu. That was a bit... :yznotimpressed: for me. And then that comment in his documentary. It could be simple Javi mess up, though.

Anyway, I could ramble about this for hours, because I'm fascinated by their relationship. But that bond I do believe in and I don't think it'll be broken, no matter what. Not until one of them r****s and maybe not even then.

Юзер 4: I do think that Boston was sort of the fork in the road for them and where they sort of split paths. That was a really high point for javi while it was the very low point for Yuzu.
I do agree that they might not have gotten as far with their skating career without each other - although a bitter part of me feels that Javi actually benefited more so than Yuzu (but let's leave my opinion at that. hehehe)

It is interesting though that while Javi seems to harbour some type of resentment - saying that if they're not as close it's not on his end... it seems that it's the opposite for yuzu? Both in his interview pre worlds (was it finnish tv? I forgot) and in Javi's documentary he emphasizes how he owes Javi a lot and credits him for winning, even putting the gold medal around Javi's neck /sob/.

By the way, which other skaters has javi molested? hahaha

Юзер 1: Regarding Boston and afterwards, so much happened that I think just set them on different paths. And again, I could ramble about that for hours, so I won't lol.

I don't disagree that Javi probably benefited more, though in a way, we can't know. For example, in Javi's book, he mentions a few points in his very early career, where he lost interest in skating because the people around him had reached the limit of what they could teach him and he got bored. Yuzu, thankfully, never had a chance to reach that limit, so he pretty much continued on an uphill path. But if he had stayed in Sendai, he might have reached that limit and maybe he would have ended up yet another skater with unfulfilled potential. (And it has nothing to do with a coach's ability, it's more a matter of experience, IMO. At the end of the day, the one who helped bring both Yuzu and Javi to the very top is Brian, with his whole team at TCC).

Resentment still feels like too heavy a word - even though I used it myself. I think it might be a case of Javi not understanding what happened. And, by now, feeling left behind somewhat. As for Yuzu, I think he's simply honest. Probably more so than Javi. But maybe he also feels a bit guilty, because he would know that in a way, Javi is right. It was Yuzu who caused the change - although it wasn't something he should have told the world. And maybe he also wants things back as they were before.

The research I mentioned - I finally got around to it a bit - is an interview after Boston, in which Yuzu says that that season, and - implied - especially after Javi upped the technical content of his program, while Yuzu wasn't around at TCC, he felt very strongly that Javier's existence as a rival was scary (that's kind of literally translated, basically, it wasn't teammate Javi or rinkmate Javi, but rival Javi and he was scary). And I wondered, when I saw that, if this shift in perspective wasn't also an issue, especially with Yuzu's own pressure of breaking his own records. Not only did he have to fight against his perfect self, but a scary rival as well. (I will probably ask Miyuki to check this later, as she has time, though, because I don't really fully trust my Japanese comprehension skills when it comes to Yuzu. :embSwan: )

ETA: watching a bit more, he actually says he felt Javi/Javi's attitude had changed between GPF and World's and that Javi probably had his own frustrations - over Olympics and Yuzu beating him in his home country twice, despite him having very good skates. And he says more that I can't really translate, but, basically, to Yuzu, that change wasn't a bad thing (he says something like he came to admire/look up to Javi again). I guess it might have just caught him by surprise?

As for other skaters, after some searching, I found it. It was Sergei Voronov
*дальше фотки, где Хави обнимает Сергея Воронова*

Юзер 2: Back to the conversation of the personas, I guess culture does play quite a role here. As a Portuguese, I was taught since a kid that it's fine to show your emotions and to speak your mind the way you want. I believe it's the same for Javi, that's why he's on-ice character does not look very different from his off-ice persona (or at least that's how he wants us to believe). Yuzuru is definitely more reserved (not less emotional, but more aware that he's a public figure and that people look up to him) which makes me think that we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to his private life. And of course, he has all the right to keep it as secluded as possible. It's only through those short moments of him visiting the disaster areas (and even crying) that I feel he's lowering his 'armor'.

And even though we ship this Yuzuvier armada, I think it's their friendship, sportsmanship and camaraderie that touches all of us. I don't even need to have any sexual content in the middle (though I do write fics:rofl:). Their relationship reminds me of a good friend of mine. The kind that you don't have to see every single day or share your lunch box. It's the kind of friend that even without seeing you for a few months, knows immediately how you are when you see each other again, like silence is not awkward but just another way of communication (ok, going too poetic, but I don't think of Yuzuvier as being cold at all).

Юзер 4: I feel like Yuzu never actually saw Javi as a rival/threat until Boston - and that adds another layer to their complicated relationship. We should go back to the fluffy stuff... lol

Юзер 1: And I agree, which in a way is very surprising - and might have surprised even Yuzu; and maybe even Javi, which in turn could maybe explain the 'resentment'.

And lol yeah... I do sometimes feel we tend to avoid angsty stuff around here :P Which is fine, really, only I'm kind of addicted to it, so I always tend to... end up slipping on the angst path lol But fluffy is nice!

Юзер 5 (в ответ Юзеру 1, про Бостон): This is the interview I mentioned before on this thread where I see Yuzu being more solemn in his attitude towards Javi , and it's so far the only time I have seen him talk about Javi in that tone and with that almost guarded face...and your translation and understanding of the interview is not off at all. He does mention about Javi changing his layout when he wasnt there, and how he thinks Javi's attitude has changed, tributing this to his two win over him in front of his home crowd in Barcelona (notes: this is what Yuzu thinks, so it more so reflected his own attitude change I think).

I think he was at his most vulnerable and emotional at this interview( it was the day after Boston and they were shooting this in a hotel in Boston) and maybe some resentment and raw emotion such as fear came out but while is was almost heart breaking to see him get not so pleasantly surprised by this rival Javi that he found out exist besides the rinkmate Javi, I found it interesting that he said he admire him more after this... probably realizing that Javi also have a fighter spirit in him which he did not see before.

So I think they have passed a point of no return (phantom~) and the way I see it is that the only way their relationship might take a turn back to more playful or even romantic is after one of them r****(which, I think will make them realize how much they mean to each other in an epic scale... They do sort of credit each other now, but I think they will truly feel it then! *Fic idea haha)

PS.and yes I am loving these angsty discussion! I needed to talk to someone about this for a long time omg

Юзер 1 (в ответ Юзеру 5): Ah, I must have missed your post. I think, adding to Yuzu being very pressured and worried and scared, finding a rival in Javi probably shook him. I can't really put it in words, but I guess it is possible that after GPF, with his injury and all, he felt he was mostly battling himself and that was hard enough, but then he also had to battle a rival that seemed stronger than ever.

The interview is painful to watch and I think that's why I had been putting off re-watching it to check if my first impressions were correct.

However, now Yuzu is on top again and by some margin, so I think from his part, that panic has faded a bit? I don't know...

The playful I think can return, maybe a bit in the ice shows now, maybe post Olympics. However, even in the book Javi makes it pretty clear he intends to r**** after the Olympics, so... My only concern after that is that they won't that often anymore. Just during ice shows and Yuzu's will be somewhat limited until he r****s and even then... Javi wants to promote figure skating in Spain, Yuzu will probably stay in Japan...

I want them together on the podium in Pyeongchang so badly! To celebrate together... imagine the epic hugs we'd get! (And maybe if romance kicks their butts, they won't just appear to be kissing anymore, but actually kiss :P Imagine this thread if that were to happen! )

От себя: в последнее время Хави уже не утверждает, что уйдет на "пенсию" после ОИ.
При цитировании не забывайте ставить тэги NI.

@темы: исследования

2017-06-05 в 21:08 

Уфф, многабукф!
К чему пришли, Юзувьер из риал?

2017-06-05 в 23:45 

От себя: в последнее время Хави уже не утверждает, что уйдет на "пенсию" после ОИ.
Все равно уйдет, старикан же.
Ну, или закончит как Жу - постепенно угасая, это грустно.

2017-06-05 в 23:53 

His dating Miki is different, because she doesn't compete. Although, in light of his book, I also find their relationship very weird...
Блин, а наш испаноанон еще не дошел до Микивьера. Интересно, что там такого странного )

2017-06-06 в 11:12 

анон! спасибо, что принёс!
все мечтают о поцелуе на пьедестале, лол.

2017-06-06 в 11:30 

все мечтают о поцелуе на пьедестале, лол.
Это так романтично :flower:

2017-06-06 в 19:56 

все мечтают о поцелуе на пьедестале, лол.
Ага, меня тоже повеселило :-D Все разные, но мыслят в одну сторону :laugh:

2017-06-06 в 20:38 

Ага, меня тоже повеселило :-D Все разные, но мыслят в одну сторону
Один раз я укурил целую историю, включающую в себя снайпера ))

2017-06-08 в 11:12 

Один раз я укурил целую историю, включающую в себя снайпера ))
Дeлись травой)) Шо за снайпео и откуда он азялся на ОИ?:gigi:

2017-06-22 в 21:55 

Дeлись травой)) Шо за снайпео и откуда он азялся на ОИ?
Не знаю, какой-то хейтер фигурного катания японцев и Японии наверное ) Это не главное.
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